Difference in Culture
On a previous post I mentioned two types of Officers. Sam questioned me on how many of each type I thought to exist in the Marines. That lead to a discussion on differences in Military Culture.
Let me rewind here by saying there are two types of Officers (NCO’s SNCO”S to extend it a bit).
Type one, the kind of officer Who is Who he (she) is because of Who they are.
Type two, the kind that is who they are because of what they wear on their collar. I found fewer of the type two kind in the Marines.
Have I worked with the Army, yes. Field Artillery School is at Fort Sill Oklahoma. In those days Marines and Soldiers trained for artillery together there. So I was around a lot of them, my class was a mixed class. Later in my career I worked with the Army here and there, and even after I retired, I worked as a consultant for the US Army at a place that specialized in computer training. Yes I was a role player. I was a Russian Style CMTA (Commander of Rockets and Artillery). Anyway lots of Army Officer types … and three Marines .. me and two others. We were the bad guys in electronic CPX’s the OPFOR. I have seen the Army over time.
On with the Cultural differences. It is said that you don’t call the Admiral in charge of the Navy … sailor. You don’t call the General in charge of the Air Force … airman. You don’t call the General in charge of the Army … soldier. But the Commandant of the Marine Corps is proud to be called a Marine. And that is true.
I will focus on two areas for the purpose of this post. One, Officers of Marines eat last. That is to say in a field chow line or when eating anywhere with the troops in your charge …. junior Marines eat first, then NCO’s, SNCO’s and last … Officers. It shows the respect that the Marines deserve. You depend on them for everything, it’s important that they are taken care of (not just in the area of chow ….. across the board but this is a powerful sign of taking care of them).
According to Ram, Army Officers routinely cut in .. in the frot of the line to eat. Ram knows the difference because he was in and succussfully completed Phase One of the Platoon Leaders Course (PLC) in Marine Corps Base Quantico Va. He broke his leg and lost his seat on that program because he was healing and could not attend the Second Phase on schedule. As Major B pointed out, there is a waiting line from here to the commissary. There is not a shortage of guys bustin ass to get on that program. That’s why he signed on with the Army on the Plan that he did.
The same with the Navy (head of the line priviledges on ships) and the Air Force. Like it’s more important for a Squid Officer to get his chewing gum in the small store than it is for a Sailor to get something he needs.
Let’s call this complex Aristocracy. The troops understand it for what it is. It contributes to Type 2 officers.
Example two of the cultural difference between Marines and Army. The rifle range. Marines spend two weeks qualifing. The are issued a shooting jacket, and get a glove for their sling hand. They are issued a shooting book to record shots on.
The first week is snapping in, and classes (that means getting into formal shooting positions and stretching) The second week they are issued ammo (Drill Instructors pull back and give them room to breathe). Shooting coaches work with every Marine to ensure they record shots, learn to dope the wind and proper shooting posture.
In the Army when Ram went through it last summer, they also get a couple of weeks. The positions they practice are informal positions, not Offhand, Kneeling, Sitting, and Prone as in the Corps. Drill Instructors do not pull back they are haranging the Soldiers as always. Soldiers practice with video shooting games first. Then they move to the range when the positions they use are limited, several involve laying the piece on a sandbag. (Yea I know where you get those in the assult is beyond me too). They do not record shots, they have no books. They have no shooting jackets (for comfort in a learning situation) and they wear their brain buckets. Summary, yes it is a shoot, a slop shoot.
The Army does not put the proper emphasis on the individual Rifleman. The Army has given up hope of the common soldier hitting anything with one round. That’s part of why they adopted that M-16 family of poodle shooters to begin with. The first edition and the second didn’t even have rear sights that were adjustable. They all fired full auto or single shot.
It takes three shots in the chest to reliably put someone out of action with one. The current Poodle Shooters have a fire selector for single or three round burst. So maybe someone can explain to me how a 30 round magazine (subject to fouling) is better than either an M1 (8 round clip) or an M-14 (20 round magazine) when to stop someone you need to put a three round burst into their chest. 30 round magazine 3 shot bursts = 10 bursts per magazine. Not much of an improvement.
Okay I quit for now I tend to get wound up. Sorta.
There is a major Culture Difference between the Marines and the Army … or the Navy or the Air Force.
March 26th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
Pa, or should I say Comrade Pa ’ski,
Thanks for the wonderful post! I knew about the custom of always making sure your junior Marines ate first, but I really appreciate the details on the rifle range.
BTW - One of my favorite noises is sitting on top of Mount Scott and listening to the arty fires at Fort Sill. The booms in the distance are comforting to me. Go figure!
As far a Pete and Ram, well, I’m pretty sure there are a few Marine quality guys in the Army.
Sam
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March 26th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
I learned about the Marine eating procedures on one of Sam’s historical posts. I don’t understand the gun thing even though I took shooting lessons from the Chief of Police…. better review my notes and practice. But I know the Marines and all our troops are the greatest, especially all the ones mentioned in this blog, past and present.
March 27th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Ah yea the sound of Artie in the distance, no wonder you ain’t right Sam …. Kidding.
It’s okay Karen I guess the real point of that is the Marines put increditable focus on each individual Marine as a rifleman first. The Army doesn’t thing rifles are used that much with all the air, artie, yada yada yada.
Which of course may be true in open country warfare in the desert, however it becomes increditably important in an urban warfare thing when the bad guys are much much closer, and an artie shell doesn’t descriminate who it kills.
March 27th, 2007 at 11:58 am
By the way it’s a bit premature but ….. Pete talked to a Marine Reserve Recruiter. He is coming to the end of his Army National Guard contract and he is gettin a bit homesick.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:36 am
Well now,
Some do say there must be something wrong with me since I prefer the company of Marines to “Money Bags.” Money Bags is what my O5, O6 (sel), at TLS calls my current boyfriend! We shall refer to him as MB. MB wants my hand in marriage but in exchange, I have to give up my Marine habit. Yea! That’ll happen, when Nancy Pelosi becomes a republican!
I asked MB to buy me a house close to Mount Scott, I even found one close enough to hear the arty. He said “no.” Guess he agrees with Pa about me not “being right.” (wink)
March 28th, 2007 at 8:56 am
I love that amonia smell of spent 30 cal rounds (military ammo) and I love artie (reach out and touch someone) so I totally understand Sam.